Curse

Aria Frost · Jul 02, 2012, 09:12 AM // 09:12

paw·ned² template

The main purpose of this build is speed vanquishing.
To achieve this goal is obviously better having multiple “Fall Back!” copies (especially to quickly seek the damned leftover group), so I’ve slotted 3 copies to reach a chained uptime of 20 secs.
Also, it is very important to kill fast, thus I’ve choosen quick recharging AoE spells like Searing Flames, Overload, Shatter Delusions as well Mistrust and Wandering Eye. To support the energy effort a BiP hero is included (backed up by UA quick rez capability).

Usage
My usual attack routine is:

Throw EVAS in the mob’s middle (ideal is throwing him when mob is balled/balling to spike ‘em down)
Quickly cast Glyph of Sacrifice+Meteor Shower+Teinai's Heat in the mob’s middle to keep them snared and avoid scattering
Cast AP on a dying foe and cover it with Pain Inverter to avoid hex removal (if needed) and “Finish Him!” when under 50% as usual.
Cast Pain Inverter on melees, AoE/multipacket damage dealing foes
Whenever AP fails or is removed and all other skills are recharging spam Lava Arrows to deal decent and low cost AoE damage.

Notes

The build can be scaled down for 6-party areas, removing the E/P hero and the SB or Inept hero.
Vital Weapon grants a long lasting (47s) +184 health buff which allows major+superior runes usage on mesmers or (for the fearless ones) even dual superior runes.
In order to have each hero able to deal damage, I’ve tried replacing the ST ritualist with a standard Minion Bomber having UA instead of AotL. Although It is mostly viable, when facing nasty mobs (like Roaring Ethers + Ruby Djinn) it doesn’t offer the same party protection that ST has.

Constuctive suggestions to improve it are welcomed.

Lithril Ashwalker · Jul 02, 2012, 01:09 PM // 13:09

not nuff healing

Captain Bulldozer · Jul 02, 2012, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker

not nuff healing

What he said.

Also, have fun with titans and destroyers...

Drk Dervish · Jul 02, 2012, 02:11 PM // 14:11

I see you have 3 SD I guess it work ok since you also got 3 Overload I guess that the hex cover. But you find foe most of the time trigger off overload their self before you can cast SD. I suggest 2 set is more then enough.

1. You also missing ench. removal skill for foe.

2. I also vote esurge over Inpt if you do need to pick one. Your already bring 3x Wandering eye there really no reason for Inpt. If you still want you can just bring clumsiness but i think that way to much reactive skill.

3. UA on mes might be a little wasteful over a mes elite.

4. Cry is a good skill to bring for Dom

5. If you find your mes is running short with energy you might consider taking unnatural Signet as a skill.

Aria Frost · Jul 02, 2012, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Healing is usually enough, however rejuvenation or well of blood may replace putrid explosion on BiP hero.

Titans and Destroyers may be handled taking winter on ST.

I'd like to bring UA somewhere to quickly recover an eventual BiP (or someone else) death. I think slotting it on a mesmer which already has a lot of damage skills it's not such a big waste.

CoF is nice but i don't like taking more than two 10e skills on BiP-relying bars (however, taking Esurge over Inept would allow another CoF copy).

About enchantment removal I'd take Mirror of Disenchanment but I haven't found it really necessary.

Daesu · Jul 02, 2012, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Despite bringing 3 mesmers, you don't have enough interrupts. CoF is one of the best interrupt+damage spells in the game and you should bring it on all your dom mesmers if you can.

Your BiPer looks to be in trouble trying to invest into ALL its necro attributes. Not sure why you would use a superior death rune just for a single skill on his bar. If your blood magic is low, consider using blood ritual instead.

Drk Dervish · Jul 02, 2012, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aria Frost

Healing is usually enough, however rejuvenation or well of blood may replace putrid explosion on BiP hero.

Titans and Destroyers may be handled taking winter on ST.

I'd like to bring UA somewhere to quickly recover an eventual BiP (or someone else) death. I think slotting it on a mesmer which already has a lot of damage skills it's not such a big waste.

CoF is nice but i don't like taking more than two 10e skills on BiP-relying bars (however, taking Esurge over Inept would allow another CoF copy).

About enchantment removal I'd take Mirror of Disenchanment but I haven't found it really necessary.

I see but FYI you ask us for suggestion base on your posted team build. It hard to suggest anything when you say you can bring this and that when needed (imo enchantment removal on foe is almost a skill need to take since there isn't much places that don't have enchanted foe). I'm just looking at the team coverage if you know where i coming from.

Just look a closer look at Shared Burden mes. I take you putted the attrib by accident in the wrong place. Shared Burden is a Ill skill but yet you pumped dom to 16. If you don't need Shared Burden that high shouldn't you put it in the other mes and bring a Dom elite for that mes.

I not buying your 3 mes have lot of damage skill (half of it is reactive, and most likely get removed by your 3x SD). The biggest single fast pocket damage for mes is E-surge and you don't even have 1 copy.

Rhershy8 · Jul 02, 2012, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aria Frost

Titans and Destroyers may be handled taking winter on ST.

You still would need burning to trigger Searing flames. Destroyers are immune to burning.

Andemius · Jul 03, 2012, 12:21 AM // 00:21

You appear to be missing Panic. I'd take it over Shared Burden, far better crowd control. Without it your heals will be overpowered.

Good luck in DoA.

Zidane Ortef · Jul 03, 2012, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andemius

Good luck in DoA.

The main purpose of this build is speed vanquishing.

/facepalm

Rexx · Jul 03, 2012, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Hi. There are some things in the build that i'm not a fan of:

1 - Having the heals on heroes that run out of energy fast (Searing Flames) or take heavy healthloss (BiP). Also, the heals are not enough for harder areas.
2 - No enchantment removal & only one hex removal skill.
3 - Panic would be nice in that build (you're balling stuff).
4 - Overload with Shatter Delusions on heroes is kinda "meh". They often use SD on important hexes.
5 - Strange atribute spread on the BiP healer.
6 - I don't think Vital Weapon is good with Shelter.
7 - Glyph of Imolation on heroes that carry Searing Flames? Why? (Probably you wanted to add Glyph of Lesser Energy instead).

I know some of these things have already been said by above posters but i want to reinforce the idea.

Aria Frost · Jul 03, 2012, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Does it look better now?
I'm still a bit undecided for the esurge hero about keeping it a Dom-Ill hybrid or going for a 12-12 Dom-FC specced one... I'm also tempted to replace Liquid Flame with "Never Give Up!" to provide additional energy

@Rexx
Glyph of Imolation is there to trigger SF damage even if foes aren't already burning
Vital Weapon should indeed allow Shelter to last longer triggering its damage reduction only on the really dangerous damage packets hitting above 65-70.

About Panic:
I think it's not generally required, unless facing mobs larger than 10 that is pretty rare when VQing. I prefer to carry 3xCoF which also deal large AoE damage and keeping SB which snares foes and also increases the chances of triggering Overload damage.

About titans and destroyers:
I don't care much about it, because there are really few areas with them. In such areas I could simply swap SFs heroes with an IV Command Nuker+SoS Resto if needed.

Andemius · Jul 03, 2012, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef

The main purpose of this build is speed vanquishing.

/facepalm

And yet the OP is testing in Fmaws, not by VQing. By extension I would say DoA is a better test of the team.

Quote:

I don't care much about it, because there are really few areas with them. In such areas I could simply swap SFs heroes with an IV Command Nuker+SoS Resto if needed.

Sort of defeats the object if you have to mess around with the composition that much due to anti-burning. Why not just take SS, Ineptitude or another Esurger. You wouldn't need to change around that way.

Aria Frost · Jul 03, 2012, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Who ever said I'm testing in Fmaws?

Drk Dervish · Jul 03, 2012, 12:57 PM // 12:57

I disagree DOA is not a good place to test general vq team build because due to to many specially generalization of the same kind of foe. For those area it be much effective if you build a customized team do deal with it.

Just an example skill it almost a given to bring eoe in your team. But eoe is not every useful in most VQ area. So is panic and lot of shut down, is little to much for general vqing especially if you got 3 mes.

I run 10+1,12+1+3,8+1 for my 2 Dom the Ill attrib is little but only skill i bring is Signet of Clumsiness for both Dom and wandering eye for 2nd Dom. It doesn't do a lot of damage but its mainly use for shut down and to give my Bip a little break. The 2 - 4x e-surge or CoF (because both dom have echo, and yes it work the first echo have a 60%+ it will copy either surge or cry) does the main damage. 4 e-surge nuking in an area is not a good place to be in especially when i run the 3rd mes as PI also with echo.

Rexx · Jul 03, 2012, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Does it look better now?
I'm still a bit undecided for the esurge hero about keeping it a Dom-Ill hybrid or going for a 12-12 Dom-FC specced one... I'm also tempted to replace Liquid Flame with "Never Give Up!" to provide additional energy.

It does look better...the add of Energy Surge & CoF makes a lot of sense.

Quote:

@Rexx
Glyph of Imolation is there to trigger SF damage even if foes aren't already burning
Vital Weapon should indeed allow Shelter to last longer triggering its damage reduction only on the really dangerous damage packets hitting above 65-70.

I understand your point but in my opinion the Glyph of Imolation is just wrong on those bars. It makes no sense to carry it. GoLE is far better since it allows your heroes to spam more SF...leading to more damage.

About Vital Weapon: You're VQing so most mobs will hit you for 65-70+ anyway. This is especially true since you don't bring conditions like weakness & +Armor skills. I would swap it for Union and micro the hero to only use it at the right time.

Quote:

About Panic:
I think it's not generally required, unless facing mobs larger than 10 that is pretty rare when VQing. I prefer to carry 3xCoF which also deal large AoE damage and keeping SB which snares foes and also increases the chances of triggering Overload damage.

Panic is very good even agaisnt 5-6 foes if they're balled up (something you're doing).

nubs0wnz · Jul 03, 2012, 02:19 PM // 14:19

I think panic would be a good idea as another aoe hex with shared burden as fuel for shatter...overload isn't great even on humans.... Three copies of fall back seems excessive.Vital weapon is bad. Over all i think this team is going to be screaming for energy even with a bip(especially mesmers). I definitely suggest maybe weakness, and less hybriding on the mesmers....just makes less damage. Take off mirror and spritual pain, kind of useless. UA on that mesmer just seems wastefull for sure.

Daesu · Jul 03, 2012, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Good job, that looks decent now.

The biggest issue I have with it is the lack of minions and spirit tankers in your build but maybe it should suffice for most vanquishes. Anyway, need to test it to see if it would work and if the energy holds up.

Jeydra has a similar 2-ele heroes build but he exploited minions and spirits which looks safer to me.

Drk Dervish · Jul 03, 2012, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by nubs0wnz

I think panic would be a good idea as another aoe hex with shared burden as fuel for shatter...overload isn't great even on humans.... Three copies of fall back seems excessive.Vital weapon is bad. Over all i think this team is going to be screaming for energy even with a bip(especially mesmers). I definitely suggest maybe weakness, and less hybriding on the mesmers....just makes less damage. Take off mirror and spritual pain, kind of useless. UA on that mesmer just seems wastefull for sure.

You do know Panic somewhat compete with CoF right and he have 3x of it. Using a elite hex as a cover hex for SD is so wasteful (but he does have a point for another blanket hex cover for SD). He also have 2x wandering eye, unnatural signet, signet of clumsiness that is more then enough for shut down coverage adding all of them deal damage via Panic do not. So adding a panic to this team does nothing at all except causing issue with his other shut down skill.

If your bring 1 or 2 mes with a self energy management bar yes Panic is great general shut down since you have not much room to bring other shut down. But when running full mes damage bar team is counter productive.

But he's right your team will be screaming for energy. Especially if Bip also going to support those two SF (which i think he will). You might need to pump blood to 13 pts the next breaking pts for Bip to +6 pip and take out "Protective Was Kaolai" and bring a 20% ench staff. Because your losing 2 sec less in the Bip Enchantment, that like losing 5-6e per cast your hero is not getting.

I don't see why he should take out mirror if so replace it with what? Mirror is free self healing to off set Bip you can't get something better then that. Spritual pain kind of useless? Most area have sprites and everyone hate those SoS rit. What better cheap spammable skill you can find better then Spritual Pain.

I also second that with lack of line holder. My guess is everything is good if you keep them KD with meteor but once the group break free. Your team might be in trouble with no melee, or mm to hold the line or sprites for your caster to duck behind with. (But I have not idea what kind of 2x SF damage can do your team. It might blow up enough foe during meteor period, anything break off might not even going to be an issue).

ultimak719 · Jul 04, 2012, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Your second version looks good. I disagree about the minions/spirits. You have your ST rit which works best without minions, because they take the prots from the spirits as well. Also, the point of this is to vanquish quickly. Dedicating a hero to making minions which are a detriment to the team as a whole instead of straight damage for faster mob kills is stupid.